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Whisky
32 / Male

Posts:129
Rank: Addict
Posted: May 16 2006 at 07:59 AM

  I would like to know how devote hetrosexual Christians,Catholics,Muslims,Jews ect. that support homosexuality put the rights of gays above the word of their god.

Also I would like to know how devote homosexual Christians,Catholics,Muslims,Jews ect. justify a religion that labels them nothing less of a discusting evil that will be burned and tortured in the firey pits of hell for all eternity.

I will let your own arguments destroy you this time not, not my arguments. I can defeat you all with 2 questions. Tootles.
 
   
Tinkerb1tch
30 / Female

Posts:1601
Rank: Moderator
Posted: May 16 2006 at 09:36 AM

 
  Quote: Whisky
  I would like to know how devote hetrosexual Christians,Catholics,Muslims,Jews ect. that support homosexuality put the rights of gays above the word of their god.

Also I would like to know how devote homosexual Christians,Catholics,Muslims,Jews ect. justify a religion that labels them nothing less of a discusting evil that will be burned and tortured in the firey pits of hell for all eternity.

I will let your own arguments destroy you this time not, not my arguments. I can defeat you all with 2 questions. Tootles.


I don't think talking about religions and their beliefs systems is wise because the Catholic reliigon for instance says that all sins are forgiven as long as the sinner is geniunely sorry. and if homosexuality IS a mental disease as you suggested in your other thread then how can it be their fault?
 
   
TMoore
31 / Male

Posts:13
Rank: Newbie
Posted: May 16 2006 at 09:48 AM

  First, a minor nitpick, it's devout, not devote.

Seccondly, I can only answer this from the Christian perspective, and I don't believe there can be a truly devout Christian, who supports homosexuality. Possibly they may appear devout, going to church every week, being compassionate, all of that, but I'm talking deep down in their hearts, believing that God exists, Jesus died for our sins, and all else that Christianity entails. A truly devout Christian can't support what the Bible labels as a sin.

However, and this answers your seccond question, and ties into what Tinkerb1tch said, it is a sin. So is lying, thinking lustful thoughts, a whole list of things. Nothing makes one worse than another. An unrepentant liar, even be it just "little white lies" is just as destined for hell as a homosexual, or a murderer. Perfection is the standard set in the Bible, and everyone falls short.

Now at the same time we are called to hate and revile sin, we were told to "Love our Neighbour". With the example of a homosexual, we are called to hate the fact that they are a homosexual, but to love them as an individual person. Same as with a liar, we hate the fact that they lie, but we love who they are. We reject the sin, but we still accept the person, because the person, in and of themselves, isn't sin.
 
   
Vitali
30 / Male

Posts:317
Rank: Administrator
Posted: May 16 2006 at 10:27 PM

 
  Quote: TMoore
  ... being compassionate, all of that,


Even towards those who are homosexual? The way I see it, these sins are not for humans to judge. What I don't understand (about religions in general) is who gives individual worshippers the right to judge and condemn thier fellow human beings in the name of religion (in the name of God)? I think that it is up to God (if said God exists) to pass such judgements. It's up to us as mortals to show compassion and understanding to all, sinners or not.

By the way, the above was in reference to God's law (i.e. Bible, Tora, Qu'ran, etc.) not human-made laws (i.e. legal system).
 
   
TMoore
31 / Male

Posts:13
Rank: Newbie
Posted: May 16 2006 at 10:34 PM

  That's what I am saying. Christians have God's laws in the Bible. We are called to follow those rules ourselves, and, if we were in fact perfect, then I suppose we would have the right to condem people. However, the Bible tells us, and common sense says the same, that nobody is perfect, and so, nobody has the right to condemn. Jesus himself said it best when he said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
 
   
Tinkerb1tch
30 / Female

Posts:1601
Rank: Moderator
Posted: May 17 2006 at 09:30 AM

 
  Quote: Vitali
 
  Quote: TMoore
  ... being compassionate, all of that,


Even towards those who are homosexual? The way I see it, these sins are not for humans to judge. What I don't understand (about religions in general) is who gives individual worshippers the right to judge and condemn thier fellow human beings in the name of religion (in the name of God)? I think that it is up to God (if said God exists) to pass such judgements. It's up to us as mortals to show compassion and understanding to all, sinners or not.

By the way, the above was in reference to God's law (i.e. Bible, Tora, Qu'ran, etc.) not human-made laws (i.e. legal system).


Thats why these kind of threads are good to think about but no one can even really give a straight forward answer. Strictly mental masterbation the way I see it!
 
   
Whisky
32 / Male

Posts:129
Rank: Addict
Posted: May 17 2006 at 10:56 PM

 
  Quote: TMoore
  First, a minor nitpick, it's devout, not devote.

Seccondly, I can only answer this from the Christian perspective, and I don't believe there can be a truly devout Christian, who supports homosexuality. Possibly they may appear devout, going to church every week, being compassionate, all of that, but I'm talking deep down in their hearts, believing that God exists, Jesus died for our sins, and all else that Christianity entails. A truly devout Christian can't support what the Bible labels as a sin.

However, and this answers your seccond question, and ties into what Tinkerb1tch said, it is a sin. So is lying, thinking lustful thoughts, a whole list of things. Nothing makes one worse than another. An unrepentant liar, even be it just "little white lies" is just as destined for hell as a homosexual, or a murderer. Perfection is the standard set in the Bible, and everyone falls short.

Now at the same time we are called to hate and revile sin, we were told to "Love our Neighbour". With the example of a homosexual, we are called to hate the fact that they are a homosexual, but to love them as an individual person. Same as with a liar, we hate the fact that they lie, but we love who they are. We reject the sin, but we still accept the person, because the person, in and of themselves, isn't sin.

In accord with your perspective(and the church) being gay is a sin- sins can be forgiven indeed. However, this sin is a never ending sin and thus won't be forgiven. In order for forgiveness, the process is first aknowledgement of sin, then confession,change, forgiveness follows.

Therefore, it is impossible to be forgiven for homosexuality unless you change your sexuality.

I win again.
 
   
Whisky
32 / Male

Posts:129
Rank: Addict
Posted: May 17 2006 at 11:05 PM

 
  Quote: Tinkerb1tch
 
  Quote: Whisky
  I would like to know how devote hetrosexual Christians,Catholics,Muslims,Jews ect. that support homosexuality put the rights of gays above the word of their god.

Also I would like to know how devote homosexual Christians,Catholics,Muslims,Jews ect. justify a religion that labels them nothing less of a discusting evil that will be burned and tortured in the firey pits of hell for all eternity.

I will let your own arguments destroy you this time not, not my arguments. I can defeat you all with 2 questions. Tootles.


I don't think talking about religions and their beliefs systems is wise because the Catholic reliigon for instance says that all sins are forgiven as long as the sinner is geniunely sorry. and if homosexuality IS a mental disease as you suggested in your other thread then how can it be their fault?

It is a mental disease in combination with mental manipulation. There will be no forgiveness.

PS: I like how you remember my words and how you are in agreement NOW to suit your current argumental needs. HOT
 
   
Whisky
32 / Male

Posts:129
Rank: Addict
Posted: May 17 2006 at 11:06 PM

 
  Quote: Tinkerb1tch
 
  Quote: Vitali
 
  Quote: TMoore
  ... being compassionate, all of that,


Even towards those who are homosexual? The way I see it, these sins are not for humans to judge. What I don't understand (about religions in general) is who gives individual worshippers the right to judge and condemn thier fellow human beings in the name of religion (in the name of God)? I think that it is up to God (if said God exists) to pass such judgements. It's up to us as mortals to show compassion and understanding to all, sinners or not.

By the way, the above was in reference to God's law (i.e. Bible, Tora, Qu'ran, etc.) not human-made laws (i.e. legal system).


Thats why these kind of threads are good to think about but no one can even really give a straight forward answer. Strictly mental masterbation the way I see it!

I don't make a post unless I know I'm right. If this was mental masturbation I'd hand you a washclothe for your face cuz I'm getting my rocks off all day here.
 
   
TMoore
31 / Male

Posts:13
Rank: Newbie
Posted: May 18 2006 at 12:30 PM

  Actually, you said exactly what I said. If someone is homosexual, asks forgiveness for it, then continues with it, then it was not true repentance, repentance implies being sorry, and making a change to prevent it from happening again. I never said a homosexual could ask forgiveness, contiune being homosexual, and still be forgiven. So you just managed to say nothing, in many words.
 
   
TMoore
31 / Male

Posts:13
Rank: Newbie
Posted: May 18 2006 at 12:34 PM

  Oh and your little bit on the ordering of forgiveness just shows ignorance on your part. Forgiveness comes whenever you ask for it. That means the only set in stone in your ordering is aknowledgement. Confession happens with forgiveness, and in the christian faith (catholic is differnet) both confession and forgiveness happen at the same time, when you go to God with it. After being forgiven, the responsibility of change is on you.
 
   
Whisky
32 / Male

Posts:129
Rank: Addict
Posted: May 22 2006 at 11:25 PM

 
  Quote: TMoore
  Oh and your little bit on the ordering of forgiveness just shows ignorance on your part. Forgiveness comes whenever you ask for it. That means the only set in stone in your ordering is aknowledgement. Confession happens with forgiveness, and in the christian faith (catholic is differnet) both confession and forgiveness happen at the same time, when you go to God with it. After being forgiven, the responsibility of change is on you.
Yeah but I don't think it comes instantly they have to mean it and change doesn't happen cold turkey.
 
   
Whisky
32 / Male

Posts:129
Rank: Addict
Posted: May 22 2006 at 11:29 PM

 
  Quote: TMoore
  Oh and your little bit on the ordering of forgiveness just shows ignorance on your part. Forgiveness comes whenever you ask for it. That means the only set in stone in your ordering is aknowledgement. Confession happens with forgiveness, and in the christian faith (catholic is differnet) both confession and forgiveness happen at the same time, when you go to God with it. After being forgiven, the responsibility of change is on you.
 
 
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